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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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yes it's the skeptic zone episode number

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179 for the 24th of March 2012 Richard

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Saunders here with you from Sydney

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Australia not much time to talk we have

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such a packed episode today starting off

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with sex let me just say that again sex

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I think you get the message yes we

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really mean it sex xx me nods going to

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be interviewing doctor Bella Elwood

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Clayton who is a sexual anthropologist

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good heavens have a very strong cup of

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coffee and listen to maynards interview

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with dr. Elwood Clayton one of maynards

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best interviews coming up at the top of

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the show and then coming up after the

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break it's a penny for your thoughts

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with penny chan in LA penny interviews

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Jared Kaufman who is also known as Timmy

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from the popular online show mr. deity

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nor mr. deity he's also involved for the

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independent investigations group aig in

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LA which is a volunteer-based

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organization founded by Jim under down

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she wondered out haven't seen him for a

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while hope to catch up with him in Tam

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ya tam in Las Vegas anyway tuning in the

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middle of the show for pennies interview

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with Jared Kaufman and then to wrap up

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the show one of my cue ed interviews

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when I was in Manchester recently I

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catch up with in fact I meet for the

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first time kristin Carlson from the

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Norwegian skeptics spoken to her online

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interview to before and correspondent

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this was the first chance we actually

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had to meet and in fact in fact as I

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on this she's in Melbourne on a little

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bit of an Australian trip hope to be

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catching up with her for lunch next week

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here in Sydney what a treat anyway

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that's at the end of the show interview

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with Kristin Carlson from Norway now a

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couple of things coming up in the coming

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week on the twenty-ninth of march in

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albury in albury New South Wales which

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is one of the major regional centers

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I'll be visiting our roving our skeptic

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zone correspondent dr. Chrissy Wilson

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now i'm attending the launch of soap

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soap soap soap soap or the science of

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anomalistic phenomena sounds really good

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really interesting if you want to come

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along to see the launch of soap which is

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a free event then visit www skeptic zone

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TV and click on the link from the show

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notes for today's episode can't wait to

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go and visit Chrissy and helped her

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launch soap which means sadly I won't be

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back quite in time to go to the

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Australian skeptics dinner here in

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Sydney where the special guest is

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professor john dwyer he's going to be

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speaking about friends of science in

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medicine now you want to book your

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ticket for this dinner and talk by

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professor john dwyer it's on the

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thirty-first of march at 630pm at the

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ride eastwood Leagues Club best thing to

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do is to go to ww skeptics calm day you

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click the link buy your ticket go along

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and hear what Professor Dwyer has to say

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about the fight the fight against the

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sheer lunacy of the extreme forms of

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quackery like homeopathy someone should

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put that into a song hmm right well it's

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about all I have to say for right now

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I'm going to run downstairs you know I'm

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not going to go to the fridge and look

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for something to drink i'm going to run

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downstairs and practice a few magic

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tricks because oh yes oh yes uncle

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Richard's been roped in to be the

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magician and his nephews Harry Potter

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themed birthday party

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this afternoon better practice and magic

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yes I'll do that I'll do that I'll

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disappear do that while you enjoy the

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here's my not spooky action at a

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why is everybody having better sex than

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me you and apparently everyone's having

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it more often as well now someone who

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might be able to answer this question as

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well as a few other things that I would

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like to know is dr. Bella Elwood Clayton

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author of sex drive in pursuit of female

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desire and the dr. Behler it wouldn't

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load is your sexual anthropologist yes

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that's right now normally like I would

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describe myself as that but that's just

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cuz I've been around puts up I mean what

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we get to do you get to go to like the

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Andes or anything or you know overseas

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what you got to do with the sexual

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anthropologist right yes the sexual

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anthropologist look at how sex and

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sexuality are shaped by culture so we

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might study things such as sex tourism

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or first sex or how contraception is

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used in africa vs downtown melbourne and

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where did you get your doctor didn't

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what did you study yes I'm I didn't

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might be a in anthropology in in that

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concordia university in montreal in

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canada and then came to australia which

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is where i was actually born and my

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father's from to do my PhD at Melbourne

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Uni and what do you do on on a daily

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basis do you currently undertaking a

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study do people yeah turn up and book

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stuff on you with Medicare how do you

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what do you do well these days um you

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know I after I left University i would

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say i published a fair few papers after

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i'm completing my PhD and i thought you

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know this is a bit frustrating the

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research that were coming up with isn't

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being heard by main the mainstream

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people aren't getting this it's just

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sort of been circulated in academic

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journals so i decided i'd like to write

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for popular culture and write about

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sexuality and cross culturally and love

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and relationships so i've done done just

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that and have been writing columns and

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articles in australian newspapers and

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magazines and priyanka p and giving

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people advice as well and when i first

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saw your book sex drive and turn the

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back over that says when it comes to

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women's priority is sex on top and you

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know their sex drive seems to be waning

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and I thought well well yeah I mean I

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mean not just talking about with

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everybody sex drive is under pressure

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would stress work with various ages so

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it doesn't surprise me at all

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this is the case so so what is

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particularly in women's case here well

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generally I believe women don't want sex

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because they don't feel sexy and we see

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that sex declines in a number of studies

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for for numerous reasons for both men

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and women it can be decline over the

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duration of a relationship as we age due

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to life pressures and certainly because

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of having children so women particularly

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there's a number of reasons I think

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contribute to our perhaps our lower

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levels of libido and these include body

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image parenting role overload depression

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and arguably aging as well how can you

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isolate any one of these I mean to me

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they sound like it what a statistician

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would call a synergism like any one of

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them on their own they're all added up

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they add up to more than all of them

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would be on their own put together

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exactly right and they add up to women

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feeling tired and not sexy and like the

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spaces that they do have empty spaces in

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their life you know it's sex not what

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they want to be filled with that so I'm

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actually just calling to question you

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know what what role the sensuality have

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in our life that's up to individuals

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have been a couple to negotiate i

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believe and i think we can stop

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necessarily respond creating what what

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role sex in such men sex and sensuality

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is in their life based on what the media

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and society are telling us is that right

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amount or even science is telling us and

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try to come up with something that suits

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your partner and yourself and so do you

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think a lot of people think that

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everyone else is having better sex more

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often more merely because I they might

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not talk about it server on thinks

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that's got to be the case or because the

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media and particularly magazines that

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want Cosmo and even dolly to a system

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where do they play their role in it well

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certainly I you know we are growing up

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watching films where everything seems to

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be pointed to how to find love how to

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attract love and desire and and you know

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I'm wrangling the one but what happens

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after we found the person we want to

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share our life with if we can even

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achieve that so great but then how do we

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maintain love how do we maintain passion

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our expectations of passionate long-term

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monogamy are so extraordinary and that

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leaves many of us feeling like our

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relation

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chips don't match they don't live up to

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it and that's not you know a good

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feeling for anybody to have weird look

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in your book you you write a bit about

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the the work of Rose me bass song now

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and she talks about that the sexual

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response modes and females there and

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which is kind of technical and basically

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quoting from your book here it says two

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women who are not happy with their lack

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of desire she says basically go and find

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a sexual stimulus and that choose and

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you decide to be receptive to it that

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seems like pretty basic advice like if

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you see something you like go do it but

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you think that that's you know that is

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either oversimplifying it or she could

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be wrong right well she is an

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international expert in her area however

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there's other experts that have

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different ideas about what the female

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sexual response model is and how it

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works and basically what I'm talking

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about here is a bit technical but we

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used to believe from master and Johnson

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that there's four stages of sexual

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excitement and human beings look who

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could not like the plateau stage but

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Randy and it's a great name for it to

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excitement plateau orgasm and resolution

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but we you know researchers realize our

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sexual function is a lot more

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complicated where to desire fit in in

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the psychological ah gical and cultural

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aspects so we've been trying to work

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that out in subsequent models Bassam

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believes that women don't experience

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spontaneous desire once on there in an

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established relationship for that by and

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large once you've settled down women

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aren't to be initiating sex now is this

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because of some serotonin type chemical

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in the brain that gets burned out after

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a period of time I don't think that's

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why she thinks that by I definitely do

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think there's a strong biochemical

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aspect all of this but I think what

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she's arguing is that because women

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don't may not necessarily feel

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spontaneous desire for sex to start off

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if they go into sex with their partner

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desire very well may kick in in that

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process however that's one kind of angle

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at looking at as many other researchers

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believe that that's not the case there

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was a study done to see which sex model

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suits women best and about a third were

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in agreeance with rosemary baths on a

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third of women fit the Masters

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Johnson model and a surfeit another

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model so there still isn't agreement

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about how female sexuality works in so

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many different ways we don't can't agree

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on what female sexual dysfunction is we

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can't agree on sexual function for women

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00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:53,899
nor if women have a definitive sexual

273
00:11:58,239 --> 00:11:55,790
peak so that's a lot of actually

274
00:12:00,639 --> 00:11:58,249
mysterious yeah one of the things that

275
00:12:02,859 --> 00:12:00,649
I've noticed in women's magazines as

276
00:12:06,189 --> 00:12:02,869
I've got older is that they keep seeming

277
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:06,199
they see me to keep putting the woman's

278
00:12:12,489 --> 00:12:09,410
sexual peak back I remember when I was

279
00:12:14,259 --> 00:12:12,499
younger they used to say it was 30s or

280
00:12:16,239 --> 00:12:14,269
something and they've moved it into the

281
00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:16,249
40s and they send a big putting it

282
00:12:20,530 --> 00:12:18,769
higher as the baby boomers get older is

283
00:12:22,210 --> 00:12:20,540
this to sell magazines or is there any

284
00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:22,220
statistical evidence to prove that the

285
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:23,720
woman's sexual peak seems to be getting

286
00:12:27,879 --> 00:12:25,970
older well I just think this is so

287
00:12:29,530 --> 00:12:27,889
interesting it really shows you know the

288
00:12:31,150 --> 00:12:29,540
term I didn't notice beforehand but it's

289
00:12:33,189 --> 00:12:31,160
a cultural mem so it's something that

290
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:33,199
everybody believes well a meme I love

291
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:36,079
that it's a made-up word ma ma mean many

292
00:12:39,729 --> 00:12:37,850
meaning everyone thinking the same thing

293
00:12:41,289 --> 00:12:39,739
at the same time didn't mean as much

294
00:12:43,150 --> 00:12:41,299
before there was the internet but with

295
00:12:44,530 --> 00:12:43,160
the Internet yeah everybody can think

296
00:12:45,909 --> 00:12:44,540
this everyone knows the same thing

297
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:45,919
because of all reading the same thing

298
00:12:52,329 --> 00:12:47,569
ever everyone's watching the cat in that

299
00:12:56,199 --> 00:12:52,339
keyboard and god that's sexy so with

300
00:12:57,639 --> 00:12:56,209
that there's this idea yes that women in

301
00:12:59,650 --> 00:12:57,649
you know in their mid-30s have their

302
00:13:01,569 --> 00:12:59,660
sexual peak and men in their adolescent

303
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:01,579
years but do you know that this all

304
00:13:06,729 --> 00:13:04,160
comes down to one study by alfred kinsey

305
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:06,739
a sexologist I think believe it was in

306
00:13:12,609 --> 00:13:09,410
the 50s and he found in his one study

307
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,619
that women who were I think 36 were

308
00:13:16,689 --> 00:13:14,480
masturbating and having the most orgasms

309
00:13:18,850 --> 00:13:16,699
and so that's what it was based on and

310
00:13:20,859 --> 00:13:18,860
again this is a difficult like this is a

311
00:13:22,059 --> 00:13:20,869
difficult thing to do Studies on in the

312
00:13:24,249 --> 00:13:22,069
first place is that part of the reason

313
00:13:25,689 --> 00:13:24,259
why there's a scarcity of information

314
00:13:27,159 --> 00:13:25,699
because is this the kind of thing it's

315
00:13:29,319 --> 00:13:27,169
difficult to get past an ethics

316
00:13:30,909 --> 00:13:29,329
committee is it you can't really you

317
00:13:33,309 --> 00:13:30,919
know take a video camera on your notepad

318
00:13:36,639 --> 00:13:33,319
into people's bedrooms at night so it is

319
00:13:38,349 --> 00:13:36,649
really complicated and there's been a

320
00:13:40,419 --> 00:13:38,359
lot of stigma attached about studying

321
00:13:43,210 --> 00:13:40,429
sexuality it's interesting though it's

322
00:13:45,479 --> 00:13:43,220
really since viagra has hit the scene

323
00:13:48,939 --> 00:13:45,489
and become so financially successful

324
00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:48,949
that women's sexuality later in life and

325
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:51,470
in general if becomes the area of

326
00:13:54,999 --> 00:13:52,850
scientific inquiry

327
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:55,009
good money can be made from it right dr.

328
00:13:58,449 --> 00:13:56,480
Bella this is definitely what I want to

329
00:14:03,340 --> 00:13:58,459
talk to you about that female sexual

330
00:14:07,329 --> 00:14:03,350
arousal disorder or fsad now this is is

331
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:07,339
this one of these made up or diseases

332
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:09,050
that just went around and if you could

333
00:14:14,350 --> 00:14:11,569
sell a female viagra and tell people

334
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:14,360
that they need it man you know you are

335
00:14:20,769 --> 00:14:17,690
printing money yes yes well it's very

336
00:14:22,569 --> 00:14:20,779
interesting so in the 70s this notion of

337
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:22,579
female sexual dysfunction started

338
00:14:26,079 --> 00:14:24,410
popping up in the literature here and

339
00:14:29,079 --> 00:14:26,089
there and that was involving issues

340
00:14:31,809 --> 00:14:29,089
associated with desire arousal orgasm

341
00:14:33,610 --> 00:14:31,819
and sexual pain and and then guess again

342
00:14:35,740 --> 00:14:33,620
we hear about viagra this becomes a

343
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:35,750
widespread sirs idea that people are

344
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:37,850
getting used to that people are taking a

345
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:41,120
drug to help female sexual dysfunction

346
00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:43,730
now dr. Bella I would like not being

347
00:14:47,410 --> 00:14:45,889
with females they've taken viagra a few

348
00:14:50,019 --> 00:14:47,420
times and have claimed that it's had and

349
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:50,029
a positive effect on them and is that

350
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:51,680
the case is there any study for this

351
00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:53,120
although they just experiencing the

352
00:14:57,699 --> 00:14:55,040
placebo effects all right oh it's

353
00:15:00,429 --> 00:14:57,709
interesting isn't it viagra has been

354
00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:00,439
given to women it's medical name being

355
00:15:04,689 --> 00:15:02,720
sylvan phil and other similar drugs as

356
00:15:07,499 --> 00:15:04,699
well and they've largely proved to be

357
00:15:11,530 --> 00:15:07,509
rather disappointing although there they

358
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:11,540
produce women being wet or aroused their

359
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:13,970
women's minds aren't so it really goes

360
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:16,399
to show that our minds are true g-spot

361
00:15:20,860 --> 00:15:18,800
when we are looking at sex drugs for

362
00:15:23,259 --> 00:15:20,870
women has been to three different areas

363
00:15:25,150 --> 00:15:23,269
on one's drugs that affect blood flow

364
00:15:27,309 --> 00:15:25,160
which we were talking about by a grand

365
00:15:28,929 --> 00:15:27,319
such ones that affect the hormonal

366
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:28,939
system and others that affect the

367
00:15:33,579 --> 00:15:31,370
central nervous system and what do you

368
00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:33,589
think is the magic bullet for female

369
00:15:38,050 --> 00:15:35,990
sexuality drugs in the future or like

370
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:38,060
almost anything else in our pharmacy

371
00:15:41,949 --> 00:15:39,680
there is no such thing as the magic

372
00:15:44,889 --> 00:15:41,959
bullet for everyone well there isn't yet

373
00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:44,899
but I predict 15 years from now within

374
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:47,209
15 years frame there will be a sex drug

375
00:15:51,069 --> 00:15:49,610
filament arrival viagra and because

376
00:15:52,929 --> 00:15:51,079
there's mean leather pants because that

377
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:52,939
drives everyone crazy doesn't matter

378
00:15:59,470 --> 00:15:57,050
what sex they are I've just came back

379
00:16:01,990 --> 00:15:59,480
though to the idea of how female sexual

380
00:16:05,199 --> 00:16:02,000
dysfunction became so popular it was

381
00:16:06,140 --> 00:16:05,209
found in a paper in 1999 in the Journal

382
00:16:08,660 --> 00:16:06,150
of American medal

383
00:16:10,610 --> 00:16:08,670
Medical Association that forty-three

384
00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:10,620
percent of women had a female sexual

385
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:13,500
desire at sexual dysfunction so you know

386
00:16:18,530 --> 00:16:15,570
that sounds quite an obvious made a

387
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:18,540
message to women doesn't it and it came

388
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:21,360
a hot topic of conversation it certainly

389
00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:24,000
does and the reading I've done pride as

390
00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:25,830
interviewer particularly from Bianca

391
00:16:30,110 --> 00:16:28,680
laurino I believe she actually looked at

392
00:16:32,180 --> 00:16:30,120
the one of the people has looked at the

393
00:16:33,770 --> 00:16:32,190
methodology of this study and I'm sure

394
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:33,780
you're about to tell us where it perhaps

395
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,330
may be flawed yes just amazing isn't it

396
00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:38,480
so women were classified with a

397
00:16:43,730 --> 00:16:41,670
dysfunction if they answered yes just

398
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:43,740
one of seven questions and these

399
00:16:48,890 --> 00:16:46,170
included whether they'd experienced lack

400
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:48,900
of desire for sex arousal difficulties

401
00:16:55,220 --> 00:16:51,600
whether they had felt anxious before sex

402
00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:55,230
and look I look that's me every time and

403
00:16:59,570 --> 00:16:57,810
also one which i find it could be a

404
00:17:01,760 --> 00:16:59,580
problem but I wouldn't consider it

405
00:17:04,460 --> 00:17:01,770
always a problem is that if the women

406
00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:04,470
came to climax to quickly quickly well

407
00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:06,660
now that could be a problem but it isn't

408
00:17:10,310 --> 00:17:08,520
always considered in the negative

409
00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:10,320
category I mean we can see it's quite

410
00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:12,780
ludicrous to define someone as having a

411
00:17:16,790 --> 00:17:14,760
dysfunction if they sometimes don't

412
00:17:19,430 --> 00:17:16,800
desire sex or their climax too quickly

413
00:17:22,579 --> 00:17:19,440
and the authors also didn't include the

414
00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:22,589
most important a DSM criteria question

415
00:17:27,010 --> 00:17:23,910
and this is I'm referring to the

416
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:27,020
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of

417
00:17:31,550 --> 00:17:29,850
Mental Health which is like the Bible of

418
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:31,560
mental health hang on is that the new

419
00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:33,570
one that's got things like orthorexia

420
00:17:38,030 --> 00:17:36,510
nervosa in it well there's one the last

421
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:38,040
one was done in two thousand and the

422
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:39,510
newest one is coming out in two thousand

423
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:41,460
dollars that's got author x universe or

424
00:17:44,570 --> 00:17:42,810
I like mentioning that that is the

425
00:17:47,630 --> 00:17:44,580
unhealthy obsession with eating healthy

426
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:47,640
food yeah you know it's the people to

427
00:17:51,380 --> 00:17:49,770
take oh I've got my carrot to it today

428
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:51,390
and if they don't take their carrot they

429
00:17:54,020 --> 00:17:52,650
don't eat anything till I get home and

430
00:17:57,530 --> 00:17:54,030
have their protein and in the process

431
00:17:59,570 --> 00:17:57,540
cause more damage to themselves yeah my

432
00:18:00,890 --> 00:17:59,580
mind yeah well that's what I mean yeah

433
00:18:03,620 --> 00:18:00,900
that's why people get suspicious when

434
00:18:04,610 --> 00:18:03,630
you have a fsad come into that because

435
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:04,620
they go hang on a minute what about

436
00:18:09,290 --> 00:18:06,690
orthorexia nervosa but please continue

437
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:09,300
dr. Bella sure so in this study they

438
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:11,250
weren't asking women are they distressed

439
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:13,590
by their so-called low levels of desire

440
00:18:17,870 --> 00:18:16,110
or you know climax scene too rapidly or

441
00:18:19,970 --> 00:18:17,880
and distress is an important element

442
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:19,980
that is part of now the diet

443
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:22,650
the criteria to define female sexual

444
00:18:28,669 --> 00:18:26,610
dysfunction hmm and so it's like

445
00:18:30,380 --> 00:18:28,679
obviously if there's money to buy their

446
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:30,390
like a pharmaceutical company doing a

447
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:33,120
very large far-reaching study as we

448
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:36,510
speak to either get this solved one way

449
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:37,679
or the other so they can find out

450
00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:38,910
whether they can make money one might

451
00:18:45,530 --> 00:18:41,160
other well essentially this is what I

452
00:18:47,570 --> 00:18:45,540
believe is that for hospital epic

453
00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:47,580
communities to approve a new drug trial

454
00:18:52,580 --> 00:18:49,980
they must first have a disease for the

455
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:52,590
product to treat so inflated rates the

456
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,210
female sexual dysfunction create a need

457
00:18:59,630 --> 00:18:57,360
for treatment and we'll see that in the

458
00:19:01,970 --> 00:18:59,640
DSM which we are talking about the DSM

459
00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:01,980
for the Bible of mental health the

460
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:03,990
definitions of female sexual dysfunction

461
00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:07,710
that we are using came about from a

462
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,200
number of conferences in which many of

463
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:12,000
the researchers had linked to drug

464
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:13,710
companies for instance in one conference

465
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:16,770
18 at a 19 participants are found to

466
00:19:22,610 --> 00:19:18,690
have a link to total of twenty-two drug

467
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:22,620
companies um I'm no hang on yeah well

468
00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:24,210
what surprise on thinking oh hang on

469
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:27,390
conflict of interest why that's alive

470
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:31,049
and and it is you know is it confusing

471
00:19:35,659 --> 00:19:33,840
area and many of the top sex researchers

472
00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:35,669
from around the world although they are

473
00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:38,390
being funded or have you know act as

474
00:19:43,310 --> 00:19:41,160
advisory on advisory boards for Big

475
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:43,320
Pharma and they say that their work

476
00:19:48,530 --> 00:19:45,120
isn't biased and that they're being

477
00:19:50,810 --> 00:19:48,540
transparent but from afar it certainly

478
00:19:52,669 --> 00:19:50,820
makes things you know you want to put

479
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:52,679
question what happening and of course

480
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:54,210
that you have the problem you have the

481
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:55,650
the same thing that people point out

482
00:19:59,450 --> 00:19:57,600
with vaccines but the problem is if you

483
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,460
want to talk to someone who's an expert

484
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:01,200
on the flu you probably have to get

485
00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:02,130
someone from the world health

486
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:04,020
organization that knows all about it to

487
00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:06,090
help you so these would be the people

488
00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:07,860
that you'd ask anyway wouldn't they yes

489
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:10,620
that's right that's right and so there

490
00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:13,710
has been numerous studies from around

491
00:20:19,970 --> 00:20:16,350
the world trying to figure out how many

492
00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:19,980
women are experiencing female sexual

493
00:20:27,530 --> 00:20:21,720
dysfunction particularly in terms of low

494
00:20:28,820 --> 00:20:27,540
desire the disorder in this dsm Bibles

495
00:20:32,210 --> 00:20:28,830
mental health that they've come up with

496
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:32,220
is called HSP d hypoactive sexual desire

497
00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:33,810
disorder

498
00:20:39,530 --> 00:20:36,750
means riya current absence of sexual

499
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:39,540
fantasies a desire for sex which causes

500
00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:41,370
one Mart distress and cannot be

501
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:43,230
explained by another mental disorder

502
00:20:48,020 --> 00:20:46,020
drug or medical condition I really

503
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:48,030
believe though that this chronic low

504
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:51,210
libido is the natural normal state of

505
00:20:54,650 --> 00:20:53,250
affairs too many women particularly in

506
00:20:56,570 --> 00:20:54,660
long-term relationships I don't think

507
00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:56,580
it's necessarily a disorder but that

508
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,170
that's what I was going to ask you how

509
00:21:03,170 --> 00:21:01,200
do we quantify the range of as we all

510
00:21:05,150 --> 00:21:03,180
ask all scientists like to draw draw a

511
00:21:07,490 --> 00:21:05,160
nice bell curve how do you figure out

512
00:21:10,130 --> 00:21:07,500
what is the correct so-called libido for

513
00:21:12,290 --> 00:21:10,140
anyone at any age in any culture exactly

514
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:12,300
that is the that is the question you've

515
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:15,120
exactly hit it and the thing too is that

516
00:21:20,090 --> 00:21:17,370
culture as you're pointing out as a huge

517
00:21:22,610 --> 00:21:20,100
role in our sexuality in the Victorian

518
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:22,620
times for instance low female desire was

519
00:21:27,230 --> 00:21:24,930
considered a virtue and now all of a

520
00:21:28,850 --> 00:21:27,240
sudden meant to disorder so and think

521
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:28,860
it'll really cool diseases to like the

522
00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:30,510
vapors that's a great I've got the

523
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:32,940
vapors get my steam-powered you know

524
00:21:36,140 --> 00:21:34,650
vibrator whatever they had then and I

525
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:36,150
and that's when they were around first

526
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:37,650
around mozhno because there was a whole

527
00:21:42,590 --> 00:21:39,840
sexual arousal problem that came in then

528
00:21:44,450 --> 00:21:42,600
mm-hmm so it it really goes to show how

529
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:44,460
the sexuality of women what our

530
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:46,110
sexuality should be like is quite

531
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:47,910
fashionable depending on where we live

532
00:21:53,570 --> 00:21:50,880
and what culture were in and to call it

533
00:21:56,090 --> 00:21:53,580
science and make it an absolute is quite

534
00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:56,100
dubious I believe look and there's a

535
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,890
phrase in your book and excuse me if I

536
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:00,480
misquote you there but it's something

537
00:22:06,290 --> 00:22:03,810
like women females are about passion

538
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:06,300
they're just not always about sexual

539
00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:08,610
passion yes and could you explain that

540
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:10,440
because I think that that sums things up

541
00:22:14,810 --> 00:22:12,690
beautifully oh thank you i really think

542
00:22:18,350 --> 00:22:14,820
if we look at our sex drive or our

543
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:18,360
libido as our creative sensual energy

544
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,640
our life force which some of the

545
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:22,320
original thinkers looking at libido did

546
00:22:26,810 --> 00:22:24,960
think of it this way and then women's

547
00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:26,820
lives aren't devoid of passion we may

548
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:28,830
just be involved in passionate parent

549
00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:30,690
parenting or having passionate careers

550
00:22:37,310 --> 00:22:34,190
or presenting a whole appearance that

551
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:37,320
induces passion or our home and dinner

552
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:40,410
tables a lot of passion and excitement

553
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:44,640
and creativity in women's lives and if

554
00:22:48,669 --> 00:22:46,730
couples decide they want more

555
00:22:51,070 --> 00:22:48,679
or sensuality in their partnerships

556
00:22:53,710 --> 00:22:51,080
women may be able to reach channel some

557
00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:53,720
of this energy and redirect it towards

558
00:22:59,590 --> 00:22:57,200
their their central partnership and look

559
00:23:01,930 --> 00:22:59,600
up how much is it our fault I mean a lot

560
00:23:04,270 --> 00:23:01,940
of men did the early research a lot of

561
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:04,280
times here men's sex drive is being

562
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:06,049
compared to women sex drivers if they

563
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:08,000
should be similar powerful things at

564
00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:10,370
certain times where does that come into

565
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:11,510
the whole thing that you know women

566
00:23:14,919 --> 00:23:12,770
should be more like men sexually

567
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:14,929
sometimes and vice versa very

568
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:16,880
interesting point I think that reflects

569
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:19,370
what our current culture is sort of

570
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:20,809
getting at you know sex is the new

571
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:22,970
status symbol and those that don't have

572
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:25,130
it and not only inferior but potentially

573
00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:27,710
dysfunctional is really interesting the

574
00:23:33,130 --> 00:23:30,350
definition of a sexless marriage in our

575
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:33,140
time period is a relationship where

576
00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:35,090
couples are having sex 10 times a year

577
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:37,460
or less I think that's quite amazing

578
00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:38,809
that couples that have been together for

579
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:41,270
a decade or have young screaming

580
00:23:46,299 --> 00:23:43,760
toddlers or you know enormous bills to

581
00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:46,309
pay if they're having sex once a month

582
00:23:50,140 --> 00:23:48,980
or so I think that's quite fantastic and

583
00:23:53,049 --> 00:23:50,150
they're doing a great job at keeping

584
00:23:54,490 --> 00:23:53,059
their sensual bond alive and yet here in

585
00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:54,500
our society we're labeling that as a

586
00:24:00,010 --> 00:23:57,830
sexless relationship quite intriguing if

587
00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:00,020
you could get a grant and you could get

588
00:24:04,450 --> 00:24:02,150
a study through an ethics committee what

589
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:04,460
kind of research would you like to do in

590
00:24:07,930 --> 00:24:06,559
to sexuality in Australia in the 21st

591
00:24:09,610 --> 00:24:07,940
century that you think needs to be done

592
00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:09,620
to answer few these fundamental

593
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:11,990
questions dr. Bella I think I'd like to

594
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:15,650
explore with women how we can create

595
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:18,890
more sensual lives how we can work at

596
00:24:23,020 --> 00:24:21,110
sexual mindfulness stealing our mind

597
00:24:25,539 --> 00:24:23,030
removing ourselves from chores and that

598
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,549
ever never ending to do list of all the

599
00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:27,520
all the things we have to get done and

600
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:31,940
work out together what ways we can come

601
00:24:37,210 --> 00:24:34,490
up with to have a more erotic life and

602
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:37,220
do you think the role of pornography has

603
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:40,130
damaged any of this and but I think you

604
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:41,690
should assume that pornography is

605
00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:43,850
fantasy not take it on as being reality

606
00:24:48,159 --> 00:24:46,130
in the same way you could say have

607
00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:48,169
Hollywood musicals damage the way people

608
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:50,990
dance so I'm just wondering how you feel

609
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:52,850
about that well I think there's really

610
00:24:57,549 --> 00:24:54,890
two sized pornography I think it's

611
00:25:00,039 --> 00:24:57,559
certainly the exposure to young people

612
00:25:00,970 --> 00:25:00,049
young people's minds is very extensive

613
00:25:03,490 --> 00:25:00,980
and can

614
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:03,500
unrealistic expectations about the role

615
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:06,530
of sex how women look how they act

616
00:25:11,049 --> 00:25:09,200
sexually and that can be damaging

617
00:25:14,530 --> 00:25:11,059
although traditionally haven't young

618
00:25:17,530 --> 00:25:14,540
people always had put sex at an overly

619
00:25:18,850 --> 00:25:17,540
important part of Allah it may have but

620
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:18,860
I think there's probably a difference

621
00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:21,710
between you're looking at one centerfold

622
00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:23,630
for instance in a magazine to being able

623
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:27,080
to at the touch of your screen go to any

624
00:25:33,070 --> 00:25:29,090
country and see any sex act no matter

625
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:33,080
how you know outrageous that said sex

626
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:35,840
therapist often advise pornography for

627
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:38,960
couples that are having low levels of

628
00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:40,640
desire in their relationship to spice

629
00:25:45,070 --> 00:25:43,070
things up today see it as a sexual tool

630
00:25:47,950 --> 00:25:45,080
so I think there are different elements

631
00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:47,960
to the argument yes and have when you've

632
00:25:52,419 --> 00:25:49,910
been on panels debating this very topic

633
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:52,429
it is such an intricate topic can you

634
00:25:55,870 --> 00:25:53,600
ever found yourself getting caught up

635
00:25:59,770 --> 00:25:55,880
well certainly it's very emotional for

636
00:26:02,880 --> 00:25:59,780
people and it really hits buttons of you

637
00:26:06,010 --> 00:26:02,890
know insecurity worried about our future

638
00:26:08,590 --> 00:26:06,020
what excites us is a personal issue you

639
00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:08,600
know it really is a hotbed of inquiry

640
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:11,750
and what would how would you answer the

641
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:14,240
question when people say everyone seems

642
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:15,919
to be having more sex than me more often

643
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:17,840
and it seems to be better I mean what's

644
00:26:21,970 --> 00:26:20,240
the best way to assure us that you know

645
00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:21,980
things aren't that bad for us well I

646
00:26:25,780 --> 00:26:23,750
don't think everybody's having more sex

647
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:25,790
than us and I think if you talk to them

648
00:26:29,620 --> 00:26:27,650
five years into their relationship it

649
00:26:31,330 --> 00:26:29,630
probably won't be the case one last

650
00:26:32,919 --> 00:26:31,340
question here's an interesting study and

651
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:32,929
I would like to know because this you

652
00:26:36,909 --> 00:26:34,130
know this is this is I think this is a

653
00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:36,919
good one in 2007 from your book sex

654
00:26:44,049 --> 00:26:39,590
drive a 2007 American study found that

655
00:26:47,470 --> 00:26:44,059
the when lap dancers were ovulating they

656
00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:47,480
actually earned more tips than any other

657
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:49,400
time during their cycle why is that

658
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:51,530
they're dancing better people can

659
00:26:55,210 --> 00:26:53,360
somehow get something of the phenoms

660
00:26:57,460 --> 00:26:55,220
come without had it why do you think

661
00:26:59,500 --> 00:26:57,470
that is well it is quite mysterious I

662
00:27:02,110 --> 00:26:59,510
think there's still a lot to learn about

663
00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:02,120
our hormones and our sexuality are

664
00:27:07,419 --> 00:27:04,340
ovulation and women's sexuality

665
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:07,429
generally across the lifespan Wow okay

666
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:09,440
look thank you dr. Bella and where do

667
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:10,730
you suggest I should go for further

668
00:27:14,570 --> 00:27:13,010
reading I mean diving into Wikipedia can

669
00:27:16,250 --> 00:27:14,580
be a bit confusing and

670
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:16,260
you know i like to say wikipedia is a

671
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:17,610
little bit like a public toilet it's

672
00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:19,289
only as good as the last person who was

673
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:21,750
there so you know you know who knows

674
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,610
what's been written there is it wears a

675
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:25,200
website we could go to get more

676
00:28:05,480 --> 00:27:27,570
information about this well there's my

677
00:28:07,399 --> 00:28:05,490
website which is www.hyken.com light by

678
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:07,409
reading material and just one last

679
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:09,450
warning there's a lot of whoo in the

680
00:28:12,620 --> 00:28:11,039
world of sex people want to sell you all

681
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:12,630
sorts of things over the counter to help

682
00:28:15,740 --> 00:28:14,159
your sex drive what is that the one

683
00:28:17,149 --> 00:28:15,750
thing you should just try and avoid that

684
00:28:19,580 --> 00:28:17,159
definitely doesn't work that a lot of

685
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:19,590
people get sucked in by I think the

686
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:21,690
thing that works the least is comparing

687
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:23,370
our sexuality to the sensuality of

688
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:26,159
others really just going to your home

689
00:28:30,529 --> 00:28:28,080
figuring out with your partner what rule

690
00:28:32,539 --> 00:28:30,539
sensuality wants to be in your life

691
00:28:34,190 --> 00:28:32,549
together and being frank about that

692
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:34,200
discussion I think is really the way to

693
00:28:37,879 --> 00:28:36,720
go rather than seeking a product now I'm

694
00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:37,889
going to go out and do a bit more study

695
00:28:53,370 --> 00:28:40,500
on this lap dancing issue okay you do

696
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:55,779
hello this is brian dunning from the

697
00:29:00,639 --> 00:28:58,399
skepta bod cast if you can be in New

698
00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:00,649
Hampshire this Monday night drop by New

699
00:29:06,879 --> 00:29:02,630
England College in Henniker to hear my

700
00:29:10,930 --> 00:29:06,889
live show sounds from beyond for free at

701
00:29:13,539 --> 00:29:10,940
the simon center sounds from beyond is a

702
00:29:15,730 --> 00:29:13,549
fun-filled hour featuring strange sounds

703
00:29:18,220 --> 00:29:15,740
that Aviva solved mysteries created

704
00:29:20,350 --> 00:29:18,230
mysteries or that help explain how and

705
00:29:23,049 --> 00:29:20,360
why our universe works the way it does

706
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:23,059
that's new england college monday march

707
00:29:29,529 --> 00:29:26,480
twenty six twenty twelve at 7pm more

708
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:29,539
informations at NEC edu or come to

709
00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:31,760
sceptile calm to find out how to bring

710
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:34,070
sounds from beyond to a venue near you

711
00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:50,040
you

712
00:30:01,960 --> 00:29:53,160
is penny Chen

713
00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:04,880
welcome to another episode of penny for

714
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:07,500
your thoughts right now i am at john

715
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:10,890
rails apartment you're welcome I'm here

716
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:14,570
with John rail and large Donahue and

717
00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:18,480
Jarrett Kaufman Jarrett coffin and today

718
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:19,980
I want to beat i'm gonna be talking to

719
00:30:26,270 --> 00:30:24,450
jared kaufman about iig so um have you

720
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:26,280
been on the skeptics on before I have

721
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:28,050
not this is my first time first time on

722
00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:29,370
the podcast so thank you thanks for

723
00:30:36,340 --> 00:30:33,360
having me so first explain what the iig

724
00:30:38,540 --> 00:30:36,350
is what the iig is the independent

725
00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:38,550
investigations group were based out of

726
00:30:44,660 --> 00:30:41,790
Hollywood California or Los Angeles and

727
00:30:46,940 --> 00:30:44,670
so where we are a paranormal and

728
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:46,950
pseudoscience investigations group made

729
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,290
up of volunteer members it's a you know

730
00:30:53,060 --> 00:30:51,600
it's a it's a dues-paying organization

731
00:30:55,670 --> 00:30:53,070
that's what gives us the funds we need

732
00:30:58,610 --> 00:30:55,680
to actually carry out various tasks go

733
00:31:00,740 --> 00:30:58,620
to events and pay for the cost of these

734
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:00,750
things but we we as opposed to being

735
00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:02,490
like a meetup group that just hangs out

736
00:31:07,510 --> 00:31:05,460
and talks about skepticism we're the

737
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:07,520
ones who are actually actively

738
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,650
participating so whether we're going out

739
00:31:14,390 --> 00:31:12,480
and finding something to investigate or

740
00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:14,400
whether people are coming to us we're

741
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:17,100
always actively actively working one of

742
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:18,570
the things we're known for is we do have

743
00:31:22,850 --> 00:31:20,610
a fifty-thousand-dollar paranormal

744
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:22,860
challenge and so people will come to us

745
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:25,290
usually online they'll email us and fill

746
00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:27,120
out an application and tell us I have

747
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:29,520
this amazing paranormal ability of some

748
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:32,640
sort whether it's a psychic abilities or

749
00:31:37,850 --> 00:31:35,610
our second projection or in our most

750
00:31:39,410 --> 00:31:37,860
recent case dowsing or a variety of

751
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:39,420
other things people say to us this is

752
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:42,720
some special ability I've got and I can

753
00:31:46,670 --> 00:31:44,640
prove it and then we say great if you

754
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:46,680
can prove it under regional scientific

755
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:48,810
conditions which includes a protocol

756
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:51,510
that they agree upon with us so it's not

757
00:31:55,220 --> 00:31:53,370
just us setting all the rules they have

758
00:31:57,380 --> 00:31:55,230
to say to us this is what I can do and

759
00:31:58,370 --> 00:31:57,390
we work with them to finalize something

760
00:31:59,960 --> 00:31:58,380
that they say yes that's definitely

761
00:32:01,460 --> 00:31:59,970
within the range of something that can

762
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:01,470
do when those conditions are reasonable

763
00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:03,810
then we carry that out and assuming

764
00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:06,030
assuming they can pull it off in a

765
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:08,340
preliminary demonstration we move on to

766
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:10,290
a much more rigorous final test and

767
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:12,840
that's when they would get $50,000 we

768
00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:14,450
also have a five-thousand-dollar finder

769
00:32:19,090 --> 00:32:16,820
feed anyone who brings someone to us who

770
00:32:20,770 --> 00:32:19,100
then wins the $50,000 that's our goal

771
00:32:22,270 --> 00:32:20,780
yeah it's a little extra carrot cuz

772
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:22,280
we'll always have people say does Oh am

773
00:32:26,890 --> 00:32:24,530
I my sister-in-law has this amazing

774
00:32:28,210 --> 00:32:26,900
ability but she you know she doesn't

775
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:28,220
want to get tested she doesn't think

776
00:32:31,330 --> 00:32:29,930
it's worth it but when we say to them

777
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:31,340
well you can also get five thousand

778
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:33,110
dollars for bringing that person to us

779
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:34,970
and if they succeed then suddenly

780
00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:37,370
they're starting to push that person so

781
00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:39,680
that that helps and our most recent was

782
00:32:47,650 --> 00:32:43,670
we just tested a dowser actually a man

783
00:32:50,410 --> 00:32:47,660
from Phoenix Arizona sus in his 70s who

784
00:32:52,780 --> 00:32:50,420
who really genuinely believes he has

785
00:32:55,690 --> 00:32:52,790
dowsing abilities he uses this up yeah

786
00:32:58,390 --> 00:32:55,700
dowsing is a typically using a tool of

787
00:33:01,690 --> 00:32:58,400
some sort the most common is two metal

788
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:01,700
rods l-shaped rods that you hold one in

789
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,130
each hand the the short end in each hand

790
00:33:07,690 --> 00:33:06,080
and you just basically walk around

791
00:33:10,450 --> 00:33:07,700
typically a field the most common thing

792
00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:10,460
people dows for i believe is water oil

793
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:13,310
is a common thing as well and probably

794
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:17,330
other things and well certainly yeah

795
00:33:20,980 --> 00:33:18,770
that that's that's something I've known

796
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:20,990
people to douse for his lost things but

797
00:33:24,850 --> 00:33:23,120
I think as far as financial gain goes

798
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:24,860
waters a very common when they'll dow's

799
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:26,960
for the right spot to build a well to

800
00:33:31,450 --> 00:33:29,360
dig a well so anyway this this person's

801
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:31,460
variation is he uses just one rod and

802
00:33:35,470 --> 00:33:34,010
can walk around and find he claimed a

803
00:33:38,890 --> 00:33:35,480
lot of things he claimed disturbed earth

804
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:38,900
and and other factors but this the test

805
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:40,370
we settled on was he could definitely

806
00:33:47,470 --> 00:33:43,250
find water in a jug that we hid under

807
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:47,480
under a filing box a box meant to carry

808
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:50,000
papers so we basically set up a

809
00:33:55,930 --> 00:33:53,750
condition with 15 boxes and he what was

810
00:33:59,710 --> 00:33:55,940
this this was actually just yesterday so

811
00:34:04,630 --> 00:33:59,720
the the 17th of March to st. Patrick's

812
00:34:06,550 --> 00:34:04,640
Day so so we did yes yes so he set this

813
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:06,560
up he in our offices at the Center for

814
00:34:12,700 --> 00:34:10,370
inquiry in Los Angeles oh and he came he

815
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:12,710
doubt he pre doused the area and he

816
00:34:15,250 --> 00:34:14,210
found a few areas that he said he was

817
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:15,260
getting readings from that he was

818
00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:16,610
picking up something maybe there was a

819
00:34:21,910 --> 00:34:20,000
pipe there he does it with just one rod

820
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:21,920
typically it's to where they cross in

821
00:34:25,870 --> 00:34:23,330
the middle and that's when they got a

822
00:34:27,740 --> 00:34:25,880
signal but in his case it just it'll

823
00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:27,750
it'll just dip off center and

824
00:34:31,129 --> 00:34:28,830
especially if it's really strong it'll

825
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:31,139
just fall right out of his hand uh it's

826
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,090
a i forget what material he said it was

827
00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:35,520
it just looked like a mean I think it

828
00:34:39,169 --> 00:34:37,710
was not aluminum i'm not sure it was but

829
00:34:40,899 --> 00:34:39,179
he said he's used other wiring as well I

830
00:34:44,899 --> 00:34:40,909
copper wiring and that worked for him

831
00:34:46,490 --> 00:34:44,909
Mikey claimed so anyway in this case he

832
00:34:47,930 --> 00:34:46,500
tooi tested the area found a couple

833
00:34:49,220 --> 00:34:47,940
spots that made him uncomfortable so we

834
00:34:51,020 --> 00:34:49,230
moved boxes around till he was

835
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:51,030
comfortable that none of the boxes was

836
00:34:55,220 --> 00:34:52,649
in an area that was giving him any any

837
00:34:58,340 --> 00:34:55,230
readings of water and so then we did on

838
00:35:02,570 --> 00:34:58,350
three three phases which gave us odds of

839
00:35:05,930 --> 00:35:02,580
i think it was 3375 to one if he would

840
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:05,940
get all three in a row I'm not fast on

841
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:07,170
the maths but that was roughly the

842
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:09,690
figure and so he would have to get get

843
00:35:15,410 --> 00:35:12,150
the the hidden bottle in all three tests

844
00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:15,420
to succeed and so we we double blinded

845
00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:17,790
this where we picked two people to be

846
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:19,800
team one everybody left the room

847
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:21,570
including the claimant everyone else the

848
00:35:27,380 --> 00:35:24,090
cameras were shut off except for cameras

849
00:35:28,430 --> 00:35:27,390
used to record it for our proof later on

850
00:35:32,330 --> 00:35:28,440
that everything was carried out properly

851
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:32,340
and two people would draw a number from

852
00:35:39,590 --> 00:35:36,570
a basket 1 out of 15 and then go around

853
00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:39,600
moving each box rotating each box so

854
00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:42,060
that they all were disturbed and placing

855
00:35:45,770 --> 00:35:43,560
the bottle under the one that was chosen

856
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,780
from the number then leave go into a

857
00:35:49,220 --> 00:35:47,520
room where they had no access to any one

858
00:35:51,140 --> 00:35:49,230
else and call out to let everyone know

859
00:35:52,430 --> 00:35:51,150
that they were clear and go back in that

860
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:52,440
way where there wasn't contamination

861
00:35:56,540 --> 00:35:54,240
with anyone as they left the room and

862
00:35:58,850 --> 00:35:56,550
then everybody returned the dowser did

863
00:36:00,800 --> 00:35:58,860
his work walked around got a reading and

864
00:36:02,330 --> 00:36:00,810
said yep that's the box that definitely

865
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:02,340
the water bottles under that one and

866
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:05,130
they lifted that box and a water bottle

867
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:06,810
and then the the other team would come

868
00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:08,400
back in and reveal which box it was

869
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:10,140
actually under and then they you know

870
00:36:14,060 --> 00:36:11,610
check all the other boxers to prove that

871
00:36:16,750 --> 00:36:14,070
there weren't any false readings and so

872
00:36:18,890 --> 00:36:16,760
this was carried out three times and and

873
00:36:21,740 --> 00:36:18,900
unfortunately for the dowser who was

874
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:21,750
very confident that he could definitely

875
00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:24,240
do what he claimed he could do he

876
00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:26,070
succeed he did not succeed on any of the

877
00:36:29,180 --> 00:36:27,480
three tests

878
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:29,190
God zero out of three and you could see

879
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:30,690
the poor guy was was getting more

880
00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:33,960
dejected as he went along I you can

881
00:36:37,340 --> 00:36:35,460
never tell what's in the the heart and

882
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:37,350
mind of someone but at least my personal

883
00:36:41,660 --> 00:36:39,750
opinion was he was he was genuine in his

884
00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:41,670
belief that he had this ability and to

885
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:43,470
give him credit he seemed also very

886
00:36:48,859 --> 00:36:45,930
genuine in desiring that we handled the

887
00:36:50,780 --> 00:36:48,869
test honestly not just to be fair to him

888
00:36:52,430 --> 00:36:50,790
but he was asking us questions about how

889
00:36:54,140 --> 00:36:52,440
we were binding it to really ensure we

890
00:36:56,540 --> 00:36:54,150
were blinding it so he seemed to

891
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:56,550
genuinely want to prove that this was

892
00:37:01,580 --> 00:36:58,880
real as well and unfortunately he didn't

893
00:37:03,470 --> 00:37:01,590
I'd say he definitely still seemed

894
00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:03,480
relatively convinced there was something

895
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:05,460
that to his abilities I mean he still

896
00:37:08,359 --> 00:37:07,050
said that when he went home he was still

897
00:37:10,010 --> 00:37:08,369
going to be continuing to practice it

898
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:10,020
and because he says he knows it works

899
00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:13,050
when he's home so that's a common thing

900
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:14,460
we deal with these people is there they

901
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:16,170
usually aren't convinced they don't have

902
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:17,760
the ability they're just convinced

903
00:37:21,230 --> 00:37:19,200
there's a reason it didn't work here but

904
00:37:23,330 --> 00:37:21,240
he was clearly shaken and disappointed

905
00:37:25,340 --> 00:37:23,340
and you know we see that we always feel

906
00:37:26,599 --> 00:37:25,350
bad for these people I mean a lot of us

907
00:37:28,070 --> 00:37:26,609
are rooting for them even if we don't

908
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:28,080
necessarily believe going and it's going

909
00:37:33,830 --> 00:37:30,090
to work when we see it we sure want to

910
00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:33,840
see something work far I mean ask a

911
00:37:38,060 --> 00:37:35,880
friend relay hey babe did you set up

912
00:37:40,010 --> 00:37:38,070
these jugs I'm gonna step outside now be

913
00:37:42,770 --> 00:37:40,020
back in but don't tell me which one just

914
00:37:44,780 --> 00:37:42,780
a simple like generic like single blinds

915
00:37:48,170 --> 00:37:44,790
things I think a lot of people don't

916
00:37:49,849 --> 00:37:48,180
know what it means to blind study some

917
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:49,859
like you don't believe you'll even

918
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:51,510
little kids it's like okay don't tell me

919
00:37:54,260 --> 00:37:52,770
if you're looking at me but I'm gonna

920
00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:54,270
try and guess and then you tell me if I

921
00:37:58,099 --> 00:37:55,740
got it right or not you know and and

922
00:38:00,770 --> 00:37:58,109
this this gentleman Luis did claim that

923
00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:00,780
he has he has done blinded testing with

924
00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:03,540
friends now it's single blinded and that

925
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:04,920
was a thing that he wasn't familiar with

926
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:07,290
wolf of y singh y double blinding was

927
00:38:10,820 --> 00:38:08,880
important and we had to explain that to

928
00:38:13,130 --> 00:38:10,830
him after the fact but he has single

929
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:13,140
blonde he's has friends never to this

930
00:38:16,849 --> 00:38:14,490
degree he said he's really only done it

931
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:16,859
under under for hidden objects before

932
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:18,960
but he'll have his friends hide it under

933
00:38:23,180 --> 00:38:20,850
one of the objects and then he goes and

934
00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:23,190
douses so we had to explain to him that

935
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:25,560
the subtle clues that another an

936
00:38:29,570 --> 00:38:28,050
observer can give that our subconscious

937
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:29,580
and of course we we did have to teach

938
00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:31,290
him about the ideomotor effect which is

939
00:38:34,340 --> 00:38:32,820
really what was being employed during

940
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:34,350
the test or at least as far as we're

941
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:37,170
concerned and he he he kept you know he

942
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:38,730
kept making claims about seeing my hands

943
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:40,720
aren't moving and yet the rods going off

944
00:38:44,130 --> 00:38:41,920
perspective and so we really had to

945
00:38:46,650 --> 00:38:44,140
explain to him the concept which he he

946
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:46,660
hadn't realized was as subtle as it is

947
00:38:49,830 --> 00:38:47,920
as it actually is he was really

948
00:38:51,660 --> 00:38:49,840
expecting he was asking questions well

949
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:51,670
yeah but if I if I don't know it's there

950
00:38:55,290 --> 00:38:53,650
then why why would I be reacting to it

951
00:38:56,940 --> 00:38:55,300
and you know one person pointed out well

952
00:38:58,589 --> 00:38:56,950
if you went by the first time and you've

953
00:39:00,300 --> 00:38:58,599
got a slight feel about it now you've

954
00:39:02,370 --> 00:39:00,310
convinced yourself that that box is the

955
00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:02,380
one so each time you go back you'll have

956
00:39:06,180 --> 00:39:04,030
that effect so we were explaining the

957
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:06,190
elements of it but it was that's an

958
00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:07,570
example of one of the many types of

959
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:08,830
tests we go through and it was certainly

960
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:10,930
one of the more interesting ones so um

961
00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:12,910
he said he went from Arizona yeah he

962
00:39:17,849 --> 00:39:15,040
drove out here himself away from Kenny

963
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:17,859
contacted you from all the way yes yes

964
00:39:25,730 --> 00:39:22,210
uh I guess not I not that I'm aware of

965
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:25,740
the iig is branching out we we have

966
00:39:31,109 --> 00:39:28,930
affiliates now not only all over the

967
00:39:33,510 --> 00:39:31,119
United States we've got I think at least

968
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:33,520
one in Canada and we have interest from

969
00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:36,730
other continents we've gotten people who

970
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:39,460
are really hoping to possibly set up iig

971
00:39:43,740 --> 00:39:41,290
affiliates in completely different

972
00:39:45,570 --> 00:39:43,750
places a real surprises we've gotten

973
00:39:49,170 --> 00:39:45,580
some contact from Africa we've gotten

974
00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:49,180
some contact from Poland I'm trying to

975
00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:50,560
member off top my head but these places

976
00:39:55,230 --> 00:39:52,950
that would be really you'd be surprised

977
00:39:56,460 --> 00:39:55,240
although happily surprised to find out

978
00:39:57,839 --> 00:39:56,470
that yeah there are real there are

979
00:39:59,490 --> 00:39:57,849
skeptics everywhere and there's some

980
00:40:01,050 --> 00:39:59,500
places that sure as heck need them I

981
00:40:03,780 --> 00:40:01,060
mean it's bad enough here obviously in

982
00:40:06,420 --> 00:40:03,790
the u.s. you know we here in the US we

983
00:40:08,670 --> 00:40:06,430
hear about all the all the ass-kicking

984
00:40:10,260 --> 00:40:08,680
that Australia is doing but

985
00:40:11,820 --> 00:40:10,270
realistically there's some some

986
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:11,830
countries that really need some help and

987
00:40:15,870 --> 00:40:13,330
it's nice to know that there are people

988
00:40:18,780 --> 00:40:15,880
there who are trying so I'm also tell me

989
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:18,790
about um the odds must be crazy yes how

990
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,770
long has that been going on like well

991
00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:22,720
the odds must be crazy is a project

992
00:40:26,970 --> 00:40:24,310
that's been in the works for a couple

993
00:40:28,349 --> 00:40:26,980
years now the basis of this one and I

994
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:28,359
definitely want to make sure this this

995
00:40:31,650 --> 00:40:29,530
credits given out because really

996
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:31,660
deserved a member of our group Wendy

997
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:34,390
Hughes who's been part of the iig for if

998
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:35,890
not as long as it's been around then

999
00:40:42,210 --> 00:40:38,170
nearly as long as we've been in in in

1000
00:40:44,339 --> 00:40:42,220
business so to speak she she got the

1001
00:40:47,099 --> 00:40:44,349
idea to start tracking stories about

1002
00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:47,109
coincidences basically just those those

1003
00:40:50,250 --> 00:40:48,790
too good to be true or too crazy to be

1004
00:40:52,859 --> 00:40:50,260
true kind of stories that everybody

1005
00:40:54,180 --> 00:40:52,869
experiences and she wanted to see you

1006
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:54,190
know start collecting them see is there

1007
00:40:56,069 --> 00:40:54,400
some

1008
00:40:58,680 --> 00:40:56,079
thing here that maybe we're missing or

1009
00:41:00,029 --> 00:40:58,690
what can we learn from these and so it

1010
00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:00,039
was a group project to just try to

1011
00:41:05,250 --> 00:41:03,220
collect these stories my involvement was

1012
00:41:06,990 --> 00:41:05,260
I got the idea to actually convert it

1013
00:41:09,779 --> 00:41:07,000
into a public website instead of a

1014
00:41:11,039 --> 00:41:09,789
private project and actually start

1015
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:11,049
collecting these stories from more than

1016
00:41:16,019 --> 00:41:13,119
just our group but from anyone reading

1017
00:41:18,809 --> 00:41:16,029
the site so the basic principle to

1018
00:41:19,980 --> 00:41:18,819
explain it is we collect exactly the

1019
00:41:21,779 --> 00:41:19,990
sort of stories I was talking about

1020
00:41:23,549 --> 00:41:21,789
everybody experiences things like

1021
00:41:25,529 --> 00:41:23,559
whether it's a dreaming about a

1022
00:41:27,690 --> 00:41:25,539
celebrity and then the next day you find

1023
00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:27,700
out they passed away or thinking about

1024
00:41:30,329 --> 00:41:28,960
someone on the phone rings and you

1025
00:41:33,150 --> 00:41:30,339
answer it and they're the ones calling

1026
00:41:34,589 --> 00:41:33,160
or running into a college buddy in a

1027
00:41:37,170 --> 00:41:34,599
completely different part of the world

1028
00:41:38,789 --> 00:41:37,180
and being surprised by it or some even

1029
00:41:40,980 --> 00:41:38,799
much cooler stories that we start to

1030
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:40,990
pick up on that have surprised us but

1031
00:41:46,109 --> 00:41:44,410
the idea is to show these stories share

1032
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:46,119
them celebrate them we're not trying to

1033
00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:47,770
put them down and say oh this isn't that

1034
00:41:51,779 --> 00:41:49,750
interesting a story it you know it it

1035
00:41:54,359 --> 00:41:51,789
could happen anyone know it's very cool

1036
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:54,369
these these stories amaze all of us no

1037
00:41:58,440 --> 00:41:55,930
matter what we know about them already

1038
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:58,450
but it's to share them so Wendy and I

1039
00:42:02,099 --> 00:42:00,000
worked really hard on this project

1040
00:42:05,519 --> 00:42:02,109
developing a plan for the website

1041
00:42:06,990 --> 00:42:05,529
developing our business model so to

1042
00:42:08,849 --> 00:42:07,000
speak even though there's no money in

1043
00:42:11,250 --> 00:42:08,859
this whatsoever and that's not the goal

1044
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:11,260
it's just for fun and it's it's an

1045
00:42:16,799 --> 00:42:15,010
opportunity well yes well and that's the

1046
00:42:19,289 --> 00:42:16,809
idea is we want the site to appeal to

1047
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:19,299
everyone this is not an overtly

1048
00:42:24,539 --> 00:42:21,130
skeptical site or at least that was the

1049
00:42:26,670 --> 00:42:24,549
plan is it's a site to share fun stories

1050
00:42:29,609 --> 00:42:26,680
and then occasionally we're going to

1051
00:42:32,250 --> 00:42:29,619
inject editorials that will teach people

1052
00:42:33,690 --> 00:42:32,260
as well about what's going on beyond it

1053
00:42:36,059 --> 00:42:33,700
so whether it's an editorial comment

1054
00:42:38,130 --> 00:42:36,069
under the story that mentions some of

1055
00:42:40,099 --> 00:42:38,140
the aspects of it that would explain it

1056
00:42:42,690 --> 00:42:40,109
we're going to try to start injecting

1057
00:42:45,870 --> 00:42:42,700
injecting some statistics into the

1058
00:42:48,420 --> 00:42:45,880
stories and just expanding out so that

1059
00:42:50,279 --> 00:42:48,430
people will hopefully learn but at the

1060
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:50,289
very least if they don't learn they're

1061
00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:52,240
just going to be entertained and we make

1062
00:42:56,519 --> 00:42:54,190
it easy to share the stories on various

1063
00:42:58,529 --> 00:42:56,529
social websites so you can easily click

1064
00:43:00,720 --> 00:42:58,539
a button to instantly tweet it or like

1065
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:00,730
it on Facebook or +1 and on google or

1066
00:43:04,589 --> 00:43:02,890
things like that I think it's really

1067
00:43:05,980 --> 00:43:04,599
valuable these days because people live

1068
00:43:08,859 --> 00:43:05,990
on social network

1069
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:08,869
and so it's an and honestly a large

1070
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:11,270
percentage of our hits so far come from

1071
00:43:14,770 --> 00:43:13,130
social network so people are clearly

1072
00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:14,780
sharing stories on there and we've got

1073
00:43:18,730 --> 00:43:17,030
assuming people are check the box that

1074
00:43:20,590 --> 00:43:18,740
says they allow it we've got people's

1075
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:20,600
actual names on the story so they can

1076
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:22,240
feel a personal connection to the story

1077
00:43:27,070 --> 00:43:25,850
so that's that's important and and we're

1078
00:43:28,780 --> 00:43:27,080
expanding I mean we've been getting

1079
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:28,790
stories from people in the skeptical

1080
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:30,710
community George Rob mentioned us

1081
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:32,480
recently on the podcast because someone

1082
00:43:35,980 --> 00:43:34,130
had actually mentioned him in a story

1083
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:35,990
and he got a kick out of that and I

1084
00:43:40,030 --> 00:43:37,970
loved it because he really spent some

1085
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:40,040
time on his podcast talking specifically

1086
00:43:44,859 --> 00:43:43,040
about exactly what we're about from his

1087
00:43:45,970 --> 00:43:44,869
own perspective he told a story of

1088
00:43:47,470 --> 00:43:45,980
something that happened to him that I

1089
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:47,480
just I loved and it was a great example

1090
00:43:52,450 --> 00:43:49,610
of something that was a really eerie

1091
00:43:54,580 --> 00:43:52,460
freaky coincidence and more importantly

1092
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:54,590
as he pointed out it had no meaning it

1093
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:56,210
didn't it didn't lead to anything it

1094
00:44:00,490 --> 00:43:57,650
didn't cause anything there wasn't

1095
00:44:02,830 --> 00:44:00,500
anything about his story that he could

1096
00:44:04,660 --> 00:44:02,840
learn from but if that could be

1097
00:44:06,310 --> 00:44:04,670
something that freakish can happen that

1098
00:44:07,630 --> 00:44:06,320
has no meaning then odds are

1099
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:07,640
occasionally someone's going to have

1100
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:09,050
something that freakish that to them

1101
00:44:12,460 --> 00:44:10,880
does have a meaning and they'll apply

1102
00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:12,470
that to their lives and really think

1103
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:15,430
it's a sign from something or you know

1104
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:18,410
fate or whatever you'll call it so it's

1105
00:44:21,820 --> 00:44:20,240
easy to understand why people people put

1106
00:44:23,620 --> 00:44:21,830
so much power behind these things so i

1107
00:44:25,060 --> 00:44:23,630
really liked what he wrote and i got his

1108
00:44:27,930 --> 00:44:25,070
permission and it's been transcribed and

1109
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:27,940
put up on our website as an editorial so

1110
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:29,810
aside from him we've had some

1111
00:44:33,930 --> 00:44:31,760
interesting guest writers yes yes we

1112
00:44:36,609 --> 00:44:33,940
just put up a story from from barry car

1113
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:36,619
barbara dresser is involved in a site

1114
00:44:40,090 --> 00:44:38,690
she's written at least one editorial now

1115
00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:40,100
she's got more she's gonna be working on

1116
00:44:45,010 --> 00:44:41,900
and she's me doing some statistics work

1117
00:44:46,990 --> 00:44:45,020
for us who else has that we've got a few

1118
00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:47,000
on the back burner from from a few names

1119
00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:48,710
in the community so I you know I'll day

1120
00:44:52,570 --> 00:44:50,510
be as those DB you will see they

1121
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:52,580
absolutely right and we've got we've got

1122
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:54,410
exciting news coming up that I will not

1123
00:44:58,359 --> 00:44:56,450
I will not give up I will not give out

1124
00:45:00,190 --> 00:44:58,369
yet we will be making a different kind

1125
00:45:02,380 --> 00:45:00,200
of premier for the odds must be crazy

1126
00:45:04,599 --> 00:45:02,390
soon that will hopefully put us on the

1127
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:04,609
radar for a lot more people nice you

1128
00:45:08,109 --> 00:45:06,410
know so that's a good project yeah Wendy

1129
00:45:10,050 --> 00:45:08,119
and I worked very hard on it she is

1130
00:45:11,590 --> 00:45:10,060
constantly working in the background

1131
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:11,600
communicating with people getting

1132
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:14,090
stories uploaded she's doing all of the

1133
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:15,770
I guess you could call it the

1134
00:45:19,660 --> 00:45:18,050
administrative work where they personal

1135
00:45:20,740 --> 00:45:19,670
work really communicating

1136
00:45:23,049 --> 00:45:20,750
people and making sure that that

1137
00:45:24,609 --> 00:45:23,059
personal touch is there and then now as

1138
00:45:26,859 --> 00:45:24,619
the geek i am i'm doing the technical

1139
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:26,869
stuff and we've got a few other people

1140
00:45:31,299 --> 00:45:28,490
within the iig helping us out we've got

1141
00:45:32,980 --> 00:45:31,309
Susan garba coo is really great with her

1142
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:32,990
guerrilla skepticism on Wikipedia

1143
00:45:38,650 --> 00:45:36,640
concept that's huge for the iig and

1144
00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:38,660
skepticism in general and she's been a

1145
00:45:42,220 --> 00:45:40,400
great cheerleader for us constantly

1146
00:45:44,319 --> 00:45:42,230
tweeting and facebooking our stuff and

1147
00:45:46,059 --> 00:45:44,329
and contacting people about it and just

1148
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:46,069
in general we've got several team

1149
00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:47,690
members who write a lot of stories Brian

1150
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:50,150
heart from the iig is probably the

1151
00:45:55,809 --> 00:45:53,170
single largest submitter to our site

1152
00:45:57,370 --> 00:45:55,819
marc-edouard marquette oh yes mark

1153
00:45:59,049 --> 00:45:57,380
edward has written a couple editorials

1154
00:46:02,770 --> 00:45:59,059
for us now absolutely and he talked

1155
00:46:05,859 --> 00:46:02,780
about us on his blog on on skeptics blog

1156
00:46:07,359 --> 00:46:05,869
and another member of our team of the

1157
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:07,369
steering committee Spencer marks has

1158
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:08,450
written something probably the most of

1159
00:46:12,730 --> 00:46:10,010
the most entertaining stories we've got

1160
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:12,740
up there so we've got our own team is

1161
00:46:17,319 --> 00:46:14,720
really regularly contributing but we

1162
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:17,329
have broken out well past not past our

1163
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:19,040
own community to even pass the skeptical

1164
00:46:22,900 --> 00:46:20,569
community we are getting submissions for

1165
00:46:24,849 --> 00:46:22,910
people great to have people outside

1166
00:46:26,260 --> 00:46:24,859
because you don't yes it look like no

1167
00:46:28,690 --> 00:46:26,270
this is not a preaching to the choir

1168
00:46:30,250 --> 00:46:28,700
such psychological inbreeding correct

1169
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:30,260
correct this is not preaching the choir

1170
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:32,480
this is meant to reach out well past our

1171
00:46:36,579 --> 00:46:33,890
community and we are getting regular

1172
00:46:38,589 --> 00:46:36,589
hits from people who clearly are finding

1173
00:46:40,539 --> 00:46:38,599
we're finding our links to our site on

1174
00:46:43,390 --> 00:46:40,549
sites that have nothing to skepticism

1175
00:46:44,650 --> 00:46:43,400
now we're finding stories submitted to

1176
00:46:46,780 --> 00:46:44,660
us from people who clearly are not

1177
00:46:48,970 --> 00:46:46,790
connected comments from people who found

1178
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,980
us through crazy search terms i mean

1179
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:50,720
we're getting hits on various things

1180
00:46:54,609 --> 00:46:52,730
that are are not related at all and

1181
00:46:56,799 --> 00:46:54,619
that's the point is we wanted to reach

1182
00:46:58,270 --> 00:46:56,809
out to people who would otherwise not

1183
00:47:00,670 --> 00:46:58,280
purposefully put themselves in our

1184
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:00,680
enemies so important because you could

1185
00:47:03,940 --> 00:47:02,240
really help some people who are like

1186
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:03,950
this crazy coincidence happen and I

1187
00:47:08,319 --> 00:47:05,359
don't know what to make of it right

1188
00:47:09,970 --> 00:47:08,329
right and and they're safe things like

1189
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:09,980
that yeah absolutely so it just it's

1190
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:11,270
entertaining and we're finding patterns

1191
00:47:14,140 --> 00:47:12,890
in them now that we're going to we're

1192
00:47:16,030 --> 00:47:14,150
going start building off of the patterns

1193
00:47:17,289 --> 00:47:16,040
and seeing what we've what we can learn

1194
00:47:19,059 --> 00:47:17,299
from them but we're finding a lot of

1195
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:19,069
stories of very similar types of events

1196
00:47:23,140 --> 00:47:20,930
and that's kind of interesting but

1197
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:23,150
absolutely we don't want to we don't

1198
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:25,040
want to ruin the fun for people we're

1199
00:47:29,170 --> 00:47:26,960
not here to set out and say your story

1200
00:47:31,299 --> 00:47:29,180
isn't interesting it's it is very

1201
00:47:31,950 --> 00:47:31,309
interesting regardless of whether it

1202
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:31,960
means

1203
00:47:38,070 --> 00:47:35,170
something more it it can be fun just on

1204
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:38,080
its own oh yeah it's great thank you for

1205
00:47:53,380 --> 00:47:52,060
I'm Eugenie Scott executive director of

1206
00:47:56,380 --> 00:47:53,390
the National Center for Science

1207
00:47:58,180 --> 00:47:56,390
Education in Oakland California we

1208
00:48:00,010 --> 00:47:58,190
defend and support the teaching of

1209
00:48:01,870 --> 00:48:00,020
evolution and climate change when it

1210
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:01,880
comes under attack for religious and

1211
00:48:06,430 --> 00:48:04,010
political reasons we help teachers

1212
00:48:09,070 --> 00:48:06,440
parents school boards and other citizens

1213
00:48:12,609 --> 00:48:09,080
defend good science in the schools come

1214
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:12,619
visit us at NCSE calm and on youtube and

1215
00:48:16,990 --> 00:48:15,200
facebook and let us know if science

1216
00:48:35,730 --> 00:48:17,000
comes under attack in your community

1217
00:48:40,210 --> 00:48:38,079
well it's hard to believe it really is

1218
00:48:42,339 --> 00:48:40,220
that QED has just entered the last

1219
00:48:44,740 --> 00:48:42,349
session with joe nickell followed by

1220
00:48:47,140 --> 00:48:44,750
lots of warm speeches by the organizers

1221
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:47,150
but how lucky am I listeners and I

1222
00:48:52,450 --> 00:48:50,240
finally get to meet Kristen Carson from

1223
00:48:56,170 --> 00:48:52,460
the norwegian skeptics hi hey you are

1224
00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:56,180
lucky aren't you yeah I like a secure

1225
00:49:00,640 --> 00:48:58,970
voice I am very lucky of course to meet

1226
00:49:03,220 --> 00:49:00,650
you I because we've been corresponding

1227
00:49:05,970 --> 00:49:03,230
for a long time we have well it's been

1228
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:05,980
it seems like a long time oh yeah I mean

1229
00:49:12,430 --> 00:49:08,930
when was that interview I had with you

1230
00:49:15,609 --> 00:49:12,440
that was it when did you do the 10 23 I

1231
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:15,619
did in February of yeah pepper have lost

1232
00:49:20,799 --> 00:49:18,710
last year 2011 I think it was another

1233
00:49:24,039 --> 00:49:20,809
route yeah only only that roof because

1234
00:49:26,049 --> 00:49:24,049
that was the last QED ok that was like

1235
00:49:28,769 --> 00:49:26,059
it seemed like a long time because I saw

1236
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:28,779
you on a video you they were in Oslo

1237
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:32,240
overdosing on homeopathic medicine I

1238
00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:34,400
thought as she someone I want to

1239
00:49:37,749 --> 00:49:35,990
interview look at her she's fronting the

1240
00:49:40,089 --> 00:49:37,759
camera she's getting out there and she's

1241
00:49:43,299 --> 00:49:40,099
leading the people in this overdose and

1242
00:49:45,999 --> 00:49:43,309
I contacted you I can't remember how I

1243
00:49:47,259 --> 00:49:46,009
wrote some something or other and we got

1244
00:49:50,289 --> 00:49:47,269
in touch and then I interviewed you yeah

1245
00:49:52,650 --> 00:49:50,299
that's right yeah no I and I don't know

1246
00:49:54,670 --> 00:49:52,660
if you could see the panic in my face

1247
00:49:56,589 --> 00:49:54,680
during that video because I knew that

1248
00:49:58,599 --> 00:49:56,599
there would be put up on YouTube and

1249
00:50:00,400 --> 00:49:58,609
stuff like that for now but yeah it was

1250
00:50:01,930 --> 00:50:00,410
it was a that was a lot of fun i said

1251
00:50:03,309 --> 00:50:01,940
that last time as well mmm you're

1252
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:03,319
looking different now because on that

1253
00:50:08,499 --> 00:50:05,450
video you're dressed up for the cold

1254
00:50:10,930 --> 00:50:08,509
just off the coldest februari a bit

1255
00:50:13,059 --> 00:50:10,940
milder here in Manchester haha very nice

1256
00:50:17,170 --> 00:50:13,069
really nice it's just been a great

1257
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:17,180
weekend customer it has there's been a

1258
00:50:24,609 --> 00:50:21,440
while since I was a mai-mai usually

1259
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:24,619
needed nerd conference so that was that

1260
00:50:30,370 --> 00:50:27,529
was a relief to finally go and cut you a

1261
00:50:33,730 --> 00:50:30,380
class yourself as a nerd well I have to

1262
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:33,740
I mean and no no I'm cheering for the

1263
00:50:37,940 --> 00:50:34,410
Nerds

1264
00:50:41,630 --> 00:50:37,950
yeah why not yeah like I like the signs

1265
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:41,640
and I like the the skeptics and I like

1266
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:44,910
the other themes they discuss I can't

1267
00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:47,010
really choose choose a favorite subject

1268
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:48,510
is well that's that's one of the things

1269
00:50:52,970 --> 00:50:50,910
I love about conferences like like this

1270
00:50:54,859 --> 00:50:52,980
one which I'm so impressed by this

1271
00:50:58,279 --> 00:50:54,869
conference it's been really really

1272
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:58,289
really good and add tam of course and

1273
00:51:02,690 --> 00:51:00,720
things like that is the variety yes

1274
00:51:05,029 --> 00:51:02,700
there's all sorts of topics and issues

1275
00:51:07,730 --> 00:51:05,039
being covered yeah i mean i was i was

1276
00:51:09,230 --> 00:51:07,740
just finished you know yesterday there

1277
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:09,240
was a couple really interesting panels

1278
00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:13,410
on you know activism outreach and also

1279
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:16,710
panel cryptozoology and I've seen a talk

1280
00:51:21,370 --> 00:51:18,510
about UFOs and it seemed talk about you

1281
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:21,380
first lived also as we and then suddenly

1282
00:51:28,099 --> 00:51:24,450
the fantastic Miriam namazi comes up and

1283
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:28,109
talks about you know secularism to fight

1284
00:51:32,180 --> 00:51:30,089
organized religion and it was just so

1285
00:51:36,109 --> 00:51:32,190
moving I couldn't can believe some of

1286
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:36,119
the things I heard yeah well I was you

1287
00:51:42,260 --> 00:51:39,930
are up in the in the privileged area VIP

1288
00:51:45,319 --> 00:51:42,270
area I got I got an invitation from a

1289
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:45,329
mysterious figure in the hallway there

1290
00:51:51,859 --> 00:51:48,240
and when that wonderful talk about UFOs

1291
00:51:53,539 --> 00:51:51,869
was was on and I you know I i still find

1292
00:51:55,779 --> 00:51:53,549
that really interesting all that UFO

1293
00:52:01,819 --> 00:51:55,789
stuff and it was such a good talk I

1294
00:52:05,390 --> 00:52:01,829
remember only slightly when I was bit

1295
00:52:07,940 --> 00:52:05,400
from late childhood too early teenagers

1296
00:52:08,959 --> 00:52:07,950
I was completely fascinated by the UFO

1297
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:08,969
stuff because I've always been

1298
00:52:14,449 --> 00:52:11,130
interested in space and his mommy that's

1299
00:52:16,819 --> 00:52:14,459
why I studied astronomy and and if I was

1300
00:52:18,499 --> 00:52:16,829
a really big UFO fan as well I can

1301
00:52:22,130 --> 00:52:18,509
really think critically about it back

1302
00:52:24,529 --> 00:52:22,140
then and I ripped taping all the UFO

1303
00:52:26,329 --> 00:52:24,539
documentaries yes yes listen to all the

1304
00:52:29,359 --> 00:52:26,339
testimonies of people who worked at area

1305
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,369
51 I was like I just thought you know I

1306
00:52:32,420 --> 00:52:31,200
was a naive kid and I thought I mean

1307
00:52:34,249 --> 00:52:32,430
these are grown-up people on television

1308
00:52:36,859 --> 00:52:34,259
they they didn't they can't lie about

1309
00:52:39,469 --> 00:52:36,869
what they say but after a while I

1310
00:52:41,359 --> 00:52:39,479
learned that they actually can well at

1311
00:52:42,890 --> 00:52:41,369
least be diluted about idea so it's not

1312
00:52:45,049 --> 00:52:42,900
really the best way to put it he

1313
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:45,059
delusional make mistakes yeah so it's

1314
00:52:52,729 --> 00:52:48,450
really interesting to slowly learn about

1315
00:52:54,589 --> 00:52:52,739
that process is that what what sparked

1316
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:54,599
your interest generally in skepticism do

1317
00:52:59,690 --> 00:52:56,130
you think something like that yeah it

1318
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:59,700
has to be I think the fact that i'm

1319
00:53:04,190 --> 00:53:01,200
always been interested in astronomy is

1320
00:53:06,259 --> 00:53:04,200
what made me be more rational because

1321
00:53:10,099 --> 00:53:06,269
that led me out to the University where

1322
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:10,109
I took some you know you have some

1323
00:53:13,609 --> 00:53:11,729
preparing studies media and philosophy

1324
00:53:15,049 --> 00:53:13,619
and all that and me suddenly I learned

1325
00:53:17,269 --> 00:53:15,059
about the difference between science and

1326
00:53:21,049 --> 00:53:17,279
pseudoscience you know I no one has told

1327
00:53:23,390 --> 00:53:21,059
me that before so I was a yeah I

1328
00:53:26,059 --> 00:53:23,400
couldn't blame myself a bit because i

1329
00:53:28,099 --> 00:53:26,069
was a bit lazy and when i was when i was

1330
00:53:31,579 --> 00:53:28,109
younger but I'm fun I've caught up now

1331
00:53:33,229 --> 00:53:31,589
how did how did you meet with merit

1332
00:53:35,180 --> 00:53:33,239
because you two seem to be the face of

1333
00:53:41,380 --> 00:53:35,190
Norwegian skepticism on earth yeah

1334
00:53:46,849 --> 00:53:41,390
combined face mart cool yes we didn't

1335
00:53:48,289 --> 00:53:46,859
meet until a while after the the other

1336
00:53:51,529 --> 00:53:48,299
conference which was held in london the

1337
00:53:53,660 --> 00:53:51,539
tan London in 2009 so far so you haven't

1338
00:53:57,890 --> 00:53:53,670
known each other that long yeah no I

1339
00:54:01,099 --> 00:53:57,900
mean she she was studying biology same

1340
00:54:03,380 --> 00:54:01,109
university as me and we were both of

1341
00:54:06,380 --> 00:54:03,390
that conference but I I never got the

1342
00:54:08,420 --> 00:54:06,390
chance to to talk to her then so I

1343
00:54:09,590 --> 00:54:08,430
remember seeing her and all the

1344
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:09,600
Norwegians

1345
00:54:14,300 --> 00:54:12,240
that conference but it was it was just

1346
00:54:16,780 --> 00:54:14,310
after that conference where we were

1347
00:54:20,780 --> 00:54:16,790
discussing on the skeptics forum

1348
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:20,790
discussion for him I know I where she

1349
00:54:25,820 --> 00:54:23,130
and a couple of other people one really

1350
00:54:28,250 --> 00:54:25,830
really wanted to start a conference like

1351
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:28,260
that in in Norway and then particularly

1352
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:32,850
in Oslo and I was just so incredibly

1353
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:35,610
motivated after Tim London Jesus nice I

1354
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:37,410
just but I had up in the air frantically

1355
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:38,970
and said I have no idea what I can do

1356
00:54:44,330 --> 00:54:40,890
but I rule I will join you guys who will

1357
00:54:46,310 --> 00:54:44,340
join us so after that I just got to know

1358
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,320
them better and go to a couple of

1359
00:54:52,220 --> 00:54:48,720
skeptics in the pub meetings and yeah

1360
00:54:54,410 --> 00:54:52,230
and quest is this rate it would be

1361
00:54:56,690 --> 00:54:54,420
really nice to see you at Taman las

1362
00:54:59,390 --> 00:54:56,700
vegas at something yeah some stage i

1363
00:55:04,550 --> 00:54:59,400
will get to town in Vegas across this

1364
00:55:06,350 --> 00:55:04,560
last year I was wasn't I wasn't that

1365
00:55:08,410 --> 00:55:06,360
many mini conference by way of I

1366
00:55:10,310 --> 00:55:08,420
couldn't make it to Vegas then and

1367
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:10,320
unfortunately I won't be able to get

1368
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:13,290
there this year either because i am

1369
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:16,290
going to place you might know australia

1370
00:55:21,740 --> 00:55:19,170
in south huh yeah just a week and a half

1371
00:55:24,490 --> 00:55:21,750
from now yeah this is probably all i

1372
00:55:26,750 --> 00:55:24,500
think about it's going to be fantastic

1373
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:26,760
so yeah i'm basically using up all my

1374
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:30,090
money and vacation time Olivia if you

1375
00:55:33,980 --> 00:55:32,490
had to go somewhere other than the

1376
00:55:37,970 --> 00:55:33,990
amazing meeting in las vegas i guess

1377
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:37,980
Australia's economy I actually I did

1378
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:41,010
notice that the last weekend that I'm in

1379
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:42,810
in in Australia in Melbourne actually

1380
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:44,850
there's there's an atheist conference

1381
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:48,210
yes I am yeah and so yeah I'm going to

1382
00:55:54,740 --> 00:55:51,330
that as well so looking forward to that

1383
00:55:56,300 --> 00:55:54,750
it should be really exciting the the

1384
00:55:58,160 --> 00:55:56,310
four horsemen it was supposed to be

1385
00:56:00,650 --> 00:55:58,170
there because the Hitchens can't be

1386
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:00,660
there but yeah the rest that will

1387
00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:02,490
obviously tend and lots of other

1388
00:56:06,860 --> 00:56:04,710
interesting people now can you envisage

1389
00:56:08,420 --> 00:56:06,870
at some stage in the future and the

1390
00:56:10,850 --> 00:56:08,430
answer has to be yes there's going to be

1391
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:10,860
a big skeptical convention in Norway

1392
00:56:14,450 --> 00:56:13,050
we're speakers from all around the world

1393
00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:14,460
because you've already had James Randi

1394
00:56:16,839 --> 00:56:16,260
day and that was a big success yeah that

1395
00:56:21,009 --> 00:56:16,849
was the

1396
00:56:23,650 --> 00:56:21,019
association great campaign on critical

1397
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:23,660
thinking from started in beginning of

1398
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:26,930
2011 as well which I chaired a long

1399
00:56:32,739 --> 00:56:30,410
massively and that was just a huge

1400
00:56:36,370 --> 00:56:32,749
success because he had like a small tour

1401
00:56:41,469 --> 00:56:36,380
of the of Norway and he just filled up

1402
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:41,479
I'm saying video it's available I if

1403
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:43,970
it's YouTube or another service but it's

1404
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:46,880
not hard to find yes you just google it

1405
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:50,210
and will come up and yeah we would it we

1406
00:56:53,739 --> 00:56:51,710
did get them to come to the skeptics in

1407
00:56:57,329 --> 00:56:53,749
the pub in Oslo and we just we just took

1408
00:57:00,339 --> 00:56:57,339
over the entire cafe when we we were and

1409
00:57:02,769 --> 00:57:00,349
got to interview and for for my podcast

1410
00:57:06,039 --> 00:57:02,779
as well so that was that was fantastic

1411
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:06,049
and i love that initiative by the

1412
00:57:09,969 --> 00:57:08,690
humanists like campaign on critical

1413
00:57:12,249 --> 00:57:09,979
thinking is it's been quite

1414
00:57:14,769 --> 00:57:12,259
controversial actually it was a lot of

1415
00:57:17,529 --> 00:57:14,779
flak from the the alternative movement

1416
00:57:20,079 --> 00:57:17,539
because I mean the humanist association

1417
00:57:23,410 --> 00:57:20,089
is what BEC you know and i will vocal

1418
00:57:25,209 --> 00:57:23,420
and and people know about them so that

1419
00:57:26,819 --> 00:57:25,219
means the those people will also know

1420
00:57:30,539 --> 00:57:26,829
about them and they've got lots of

1421
00:57:34,479 --> 00:57:30,549
counter campaigns and you know a bit of

1422
00:57:36,130 --> 00:57:34,489
accuse everyone of bullying and stuff

1423
00:57:38,499 --> 00:57:36,140
like that so this is very interesting to

1424
00:57:40,029 --> 00:57:38,509
follow oh yeah yeah now here's some

1425
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:40,039
advice for listeners around the world

1426
00:57:45,729 --> 00:57:44,450
run to your DVD library your DVD rental

1427
00:57:48,670 --> 00:57:45,739
library and look for a movie called

1428
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:48,680
troll hunter it's such fun I heard you

1429
00:57:54,999 --> 00:57:51,410
liked it I love that movie it's a great

1430
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:55,009
popcorn film yes yeah it's a kind of a

1431
00:57:59,259 --> 00:57:56,930
mockumentary I guess you would call it

1432
00:58:01,660 --> 00:57:59,269
it's like one of those found footage

1433
00:58:03,759 --> 00:58:01,670
mockumentaries where this film was

1434
00:58:05,799 --> 00:58:03,769
discovered yeah you know all the people

1435
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:05,809
are probably dead by now and then yeah

1436
00:58:11,019 --> 00:58:08,690
so say no more its factor also controls

1437
00:58:13,259 --> 00:58:11,029
in about hunting yes troll yeah yeah

1438
00:58:15,910 --> 00:58:13,269
that's no agent film of course obviously

1439
00:58:17,950 --> 00:58:15,920
my Richard mentions that I didn't I did

1440
00:58:21,789 --> 00:58:17,960
and I don't think I've seen many region

1441
00:58:22,980 --> 00:58:21,799
from no in fact that one is in Norwegian

1442
00:58:26,370 --> 00:58:22,990
too yes

1443
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:26,380
yeah yeah I'm subtitles were fine I

1444
00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:28,240
guess I me but you do miss a syllable

1445
00:58:33,810 --> 00:58:30,760
some jokes I guess which of Norwegians

1446
00:58:36,930 --> 00:58:33,820
there are some specific in jokes and and

1447
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:36,940
and things pertaining to the folklore I

1448
00:58:42,750 --> 00:58:40,570
guess around trolls but I mean a couple

1449
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:42,760
of points are pretty / explained in the

1450
00:58:48,030 --> 00:58:45,130
film think so it's all good it should be

1451
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:48,040
all get there ah well I've come a long

1452
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:50,530
way to Manchester but you know what it's

1453
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:52,930
not that much further to Oslo maybe

1454
00:58:56,670 --> 00:58:55,210
maybe I can put my mind to getting over

1455
00:58:58,890 --> 00:58:56,680
there that is a very good point but

1456
00:59:01,470 --> 00:58:58,900
sometimes I think you should think about

1457
00:59:03,750 --> 00:59:01,480
it really well on it I will you are very

1458
00:59:06,450 --> 00:59:03,760
welcome oh and it also it would love too

1459
00:59:10,650 --> 00:59:06,460
heavy one day yeah I'm yes let's do it

1460
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:10,660
next year yeah yeah I mean get on foot

1461
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:13,810
it oh sure Kristen thank you very much

1462
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:31,759
I am audit by Kristen Aviva tips that I

1463
00:59:35,539 --> 00:59:33,210
some lotion lifted up the skeptic zone

1464
00:59:37,519 --> 00:59:35,549
I'm skeptical million Nadia the VINs not

1465
00:59:39,380 --> 00:59:37,529
a blog gear or Petrov a podcast of

1466
00:59:42,049 --> 00:59:39,390
reading and skip sistema Schlichten this

1467
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:42,059
drama central i'll skip cystal demo or

1468
00:59:45,499 --> 00:59:43,410
higher publicize the tapes corner

1469
00:59:47,089 --> 00:59:45,509
Chiclets and calendar / activator or

1470
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:47,099
link it in detail association escapes

1471
00:59:50,029 --> 00:59:48,210
his blog in opportunity I'm Leigh

1472
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:50,039
autodesk ateres hefty performance so

1473
01:00:08,179 --> 00:59:51,930
stick in them or delta do Lhasa escapes

1474
01:00:15,329 --> 01:00:11,039
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1475
01:00:18,870 --> 01:00:15,339
Zone episode number 179 good heavens

1476
01:00:23,189 --> 01:00:18,880
nearly 180 and a bit later down the year

1477
01:00:26,130 --> 01:00:23,199
will be episode 200 Wow but let's not

1478
01:00:27,390 --> 01:00:26,140
get ahead of ourselves coming up soon

1479
01:00:31,559 --> 01:00:27,400
I'm going to be offering some more

1480
01:00:33,890 --> 01:00:31,569
Maynard merchandise for bid on eBay and

1481
01:00:36,829 --> 01:00:33,900
another you just roll it out here

1482
01:00:40,650 --> 01:00:36,839
another one of these fantastic posters

1483
01:00:42,569 --> 01:00:40,660
from the center for inquiry signed by

1484
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:42,579
all sorts of people including Brian

1485
01:00:47,729 --> 01:00:44,799
Dunning Phil Plait Maynard himself

1486
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:47,739
Jeremy Cole rebecca watson steve novella

1487
01:00:55,140 --> 01:00:53,170
and many more could be yours coming up

1488
01:00:59,819 --> 01:00:55,150
in a few weeks I think plus some Maynard

1489
01:01:02,189 --> 01:00:59,829
books and CDs all of that of course is

1490
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:02,199
to help pay for Maynard's plane ticket

1491
01:01:08,039 --> 01:01:04,930
to Tam in Las Vegas and I'm delighted to

1492
01:01:10,949 --> 01:01:08,049
see and very flattered that I'll be a

1493
01:01:13,859 --> 01:01:10,959
speaker at Taman along with dr. Aichi in

1494
01:01:16,199 --> 01:01:13,869
fact fantastic stuff anyway that's all a

1495
01:01:18,029 --> 01:01:16,209
bit down the track I think I better

1496
01:01:21,329 --> 01:01:18,039
practice some more magic they're going

1497
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:21,339
to magic cat next to me really you do

1498
01:01:28,289 --> 01:01:24,400
some magic alright mean the cat often do

1499
01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:28,299
some magic and of next week this is

1500
01:01:36,500 --> 01:01:30,910
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1501
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:38,480
you've been listening to the skeptic

1502
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:43,290
zone visit her website at www skipped